36-1 and timing | AEM
9 posts / 0 new
Last post
noslin
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 10 months ago
Joined: 07/24/2018 - 21:40
36-1 and timing

setup is as follows, 36-1 wheel, crank is Vr and falling, cam is hall and falling.  changed location of the crank sensor, set timing accordingly and now will turnover and then big backfire.  just to be clear, the car was running fine.  all that was changed was the crank pickup sensor location from 25 deg.  ATDC to about 30 deg BTDC. 

initial setup when the car ran fine, looking at the motor, crank sensor was at about 25 degree ATDC.  the car ran fine.  becuase the sensor was close to fan belt, it was moved away from fan belt. now its at about 30 deg BTDC.  i set the timing  as it supposed to be and when we went to try and start, it wouldnt crank and no fire.  let it sit for few, then try again and it would crank then big backfire. car ran just find prior to moving sensor, moved sensor, reset timing, no start. its as if the timing is way off even though timing is set per instructions.  (had no issue before)

interestingly, before i started to retard the timing to TDC the distance between the crank trigger and timing mark i set on the pulley was about the same as it was before moving the crank trigger.  neverthless, the timing is off, i retarded the timing to get to TDC and as mentioned, bang.  so, what im wondering is, do i need to retard it more till it comes back around to TDC agian? 

i have the cam synch about 90 deg BTDC.  this did not change, only the crank sensor location changed.  with the motor at TDC, the missing tooth is 90 deg ATDC and this did not change and can not change.

i did not get a log, my pc died at same time angry

thank you

dean

AEM_PT
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 05/22/2014 - 08:13
Dean,

Dean,

Did you verify and set timing using the "Ignition Timing Sync Wizard" in the software?

noslin
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 10 months ago
Joined: 07/24/2018 - 21:40
yes, timing set with

yes, timing set with 'ignition timing sync wizard' .   

motor ran fine with crank pickup at 20 deg ATDC, set timing with 'ignitoin timing sync wizard' and no problems.

move sensor to BTDC, set timing with 'ignition timing sync wizard' and have issues. 

cam sync sensor did not change, only the crank sensor changed. 

thank you

Dean

AEM_PT
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 05/22/2014 - 08:13
At this point, a cranking log

At this point, a cranking log of the ADV pickups tab is required to further assess what may be occuring. It is possible that the crank sensor location is closer to a noise source which may require additional filtering be implemented to the wiring that was not required previously. 

noslin
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 10 months ago
Joined: 07/24/2018 - 21:40
Thank you, it will be two

Thank you, it will be two weeks as he is on vacation.  ill report back with log after that.  

one thing, both cam and crank are not right next to each other.  they are within say three inchs max seperation. crank sensor wire runs right next to cam sensor and sensor wires.  Also, there is no filtering on anything yet.

AEM_PT
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 05/22/2014 - 08:13
Getting the Motor to fire

Getting the Motor to fire without any filtering on the Crank VR sensor is close to never heard of. As you know the EMS-4 is pretty bare bones so it does not have any built in option to filter the signals for sensor inputs. Using a VR sensor allows you to implement filtering through the wiring. Check this link for further details concerning this. https://www.aemelectronics.com/?q=forum/ems-4-diyfaq-look-here-first

noslin
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 10 months ago
Joined: 07/24/2018 - 21:40
Ok,   i put the crank sensor

Ok,   i put the crank sensor back where it was orginally because it ran there.  timing is set with injectors off and using wizard.  when i go to start ( and this has been continuous... everytime) the computer gets disconnected or kicked-off and can not reconnect. if i try there is a port error.  i put a 5k ohm resistor on.   the motor will run, idle, etc.  but i can not do anything as the pc cannot reconnect.  the buggy is wired up exactly as diagram shows.  the grounds splice A and B are as they show and same for power.   both power and ground go straight to the batter.  the motor is grounded to the battery and so are the heads. 

one thing i was wondering about tonight thinking about this is, when is timing with injectors off i dont think i was disconnected.  seems to get kicked off right when it syncs?

the calibration is attached, a pc log and a ecu log.  i did ttwo pc/ecu logs.  look at the times.. one was without fan belt and also went directly to battery to turn on the relay for aem thinking the switch might be causing an issue.

im thinking about putting the 1k resistor on and trying that.   but im clueless why it would kick the computer off (disconnect).

82018 timing set 5k diodes.AEM20.01V24.cal

2018-08-12 1505[counter] PC Log.daq

2018-08-12 1507[counter] ECU Log wo fan belt.daq

2018-08-12 1542[counter] ECU Log.daq

2018-08-12 1539[counter] PC Log isolate grnd and pwr.daq

 

 

 

 

thank you

dean

 

noslin
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 10 months ago
Joined: 07/24/2018 - 21:40
files  

anyone?

 

AEM_PT
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 05/22/2014 - 08:13
So the logs do not appear to

So the logs do not appear to contain Cam Period. You need to add that to the internal log or on the channels list for the page that you are PC logging on. 

In any case, your crank signal comes in noisy. I would disable the cam by unplugging it and change the file to operate on batch fire fueling and wasted spark ignition. It is likely that both sensors are contributing to the noise that the ecu is picking up. If you isolate just the crank and filter just the crank, you could get the motor to run and operate smooth before re-introducing the cam.