OEM Distributor | AEM
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m0sad
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OEM Distributor

Hello all, 

 

i have an infinity 506 with aem harness 92-95 civic, connected to my b18c4 engine,ID1000, 62mm turbo, OEM Distributor.

obd1 harness, Distributor plug is modified to obd2a plug, (it's a msd Distributor 8488) 

the car runs perfect no special tune issues on a aem v1.

i bought the oem dist' jumper from AEM (for the OEM Distributor), hooked it up to the 'coil' wire that is in the 92-95 harness.  

 

started with b16 oem Distributor map... 

at crank speed the ignition looks fine (locked it on 16 degrees), with 15deg and a value of 50 on my VE table, car wont start. 

only after i raised the VE to 130% the car started and it sounded like the ignition if off, 

i checked it again (now when the engine is running) and saw that i'm way off, 

i needed to advance it 30deg more (std for honda b16 base map is 35deg off)

car still did not run and sounded like it's way retarded (turbo spooling at 2000rpm)

ture the car off, switch to the V1, all is good, run like a dream (=

when i switch back to the 506, checked the ignition again, it was advanced too much, lowerd the 35deg that i advanced earlier, and it was good (total now is 35deg) 

 

what am i doing wrong ?

after start up.itssn - file

changeToRarFile.log - please change the file to .RAR to see the log

i saw this post https://www.aemelectronics.com/forum/anyone-ever-use-infinity-10-distrib...

didnt understood if it's related to my case.. 

 

sorry for the long post, wanted to be clear.. [= 

 

 

AEM_PT
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Joined: 05/22/2014 - 08:13
You need to sync your timing

You need to sync your timing and go through the basic setup within the wizards. It is important that you have an O2 sensor installed and the proper injector data selected in order for VE to function properly. The base cal file is not always guaranteed to work on all swaps and is generally meant as a base starting point to configure your motor.

m0sad
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Last seen: 5 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 02/14/2019 - 07:06
thx for the replay. 

thx for the replay. 

sorry if i wasn't clear earlier. 

i did sync my ignition, it did not hold, the ignition was off after another restart. 

 

i think i know what is the problem - when i connect the 'AEM 30-3501-00' 

 

do i still need to reverse my distributor to falling edge ? 

m0sad
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anyone ?

anyone ?

AEM_SB
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Joined: 06/07/2014 - 14:29
I've looked at your log, it

I've looked at your log, it looks like the ECU is unhappy with the crank signal and/or the crank sensitivity settings in the calibration. The main problem in the data is the calculated channel 'Cam0_Timing' jumps and stays at bad values while the engine is running, and those jumps are usually by 30 degrees. That value 'Cam0_Timing' should always be between 0-29 degrees for setups with 12 teeth on the crankshaft  (or 24-teeth on a cam-driven distributor like yours), ideally I'd like to see measurements between 10-20 degrees without much fluctuation.

 

First, please go to the Wizards >> Setup Wizard >> Diagnostic page, and change these two options: 

Cam/Crank Sync Response when Sync Error Primary Cam Signature  = ReSync (original settings were Ignore)

Cam/Crank Sync Response when Sync Error Secondary Cam Signature  = ReSync (original settings were Ignore)

That will cause the ECU to stop firing coils and injectors and resync each time it detects a problem with crank or cam signals. This isn't going to prevent the ECU from being unhappy with the signals, but it will prevent the timing sync from moving around due to ignoring errors.

 

After making those changes, you'll probably get misfires when the ECU sees crank signals it's not happy with. To prevent those misfires entirely, you'll probably need to try a few different values for the VR_PwmDuty table.  This table sets the minimum voltage that is considered a 'real' signal from the VR sensor, and lower voltages are assumed to be noise that should be ignored. If the table values are set too high for your sensor, the ECU might ignore real signals. If the table values are set too low, the ECU might pick up noise in addition to the real signals. The table is set to [60,60] in the base calibration, which was tested on a 2000 Civic Si, I think that car had a USDM B16 engine. Try changing the second number in the table down to [60,50]  and [60,40], also try going up to [60,80]  and [60,90]. If you need additional help, please take logs with those different VR_PwmDuty table values and post them here. 

 

You shouldn't need to do anything with the distributor wires if you're using the AEM 30-3501 adapter harness. The little module that plugs into that adapter harness just sends the correct type of edge that the OEM ignitor needs to fire the coil correctly, it shouldn't affect the cam or crank input signals. An easy way to check that the ECU is receiving the correct edge of the VR sensors is to lock the ignition timing and rev the engine to high RPM. If the timing stays steady, the ECU is using the correct edge. You can adjust the option Pickup Sensor Delay in the 'Ignition Sync' page of the wizard to compensate for minor (1-2 degrees) advance or retard at high RPM.  If it advances or retards by more than 3-4 degrees, that usually means the ECU is using the wrong edge.

 

 

The high VETable numbers are because of the MAP sensor reading too low. It's showing too much vacuum when the engine is idling, and also too much vacuum when the engine is off. Double-check which MAP sensor is installed on the car, and configure the ECU to match that.

 

Hope that helps,

SB

m0sad
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Thank you SB. it helps alot

Thank you SB. it helps alot to get a details answer!

i will try and will post after that, 

m0sad
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Dear SB, 

Dear SB, 

it seems to work fine now. 

i changed the can/crank sync responce, car wont start at 35deg offset

then i changed the VR_PWMduty to 60,50, car started good, and sounded good. 

i lowerd it to 60,40 and it's sounds better. 

synced the ignition, it sets on 37deg offset, when i raise the rpm it playes a lil bit, but i was alone so i will deal with that later on [=

i did not log the change between 60,50 and 60,40. if you will need that i will log it and upload. 

 

car still run on over 170% VE. 

my map sensor is a gm 12223861 3bar, it's working fine on my aem v1. when i choose it in the infinity, the car shutsdown. 

 

im posting the logs first, then i will go over them myself, again thank you for you help!

 

after change_sounds good_not synced.itlog

after change_sounds good_ignition synced 370ffset.itlog

quick drive.itlog

after change_sounds good_ignition synced 370ffset.itssn

quick drive.itssn

after change_sounds good_not synced.itssn

m0sad
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Last seen: 5 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 02/14/2019 - 07:06
update, 

update, 

i saw the logs, i saw the difference between the cam0 now and then.. did not know the correct values for that, now i do (thx again)

i do not have a lambda connected to the ecu yet, also with my map settings GM 3bar, car wont start. 

in all of the logs i configured the "honda/acura oem map" (gm 3bar is connected ) then the car starts, my map reads -10 (psi) on idle, i checked the voltage (analog8v) it looks good to me, voltage is not spiking or getting stock. 

if you'll have any input on that it will be great, thx. 

AEM_SB
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Last seen: 2 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 06/07/2014 - 14:29
The ECU uses the MAP sensor

The ECU uses the MAP sensor reading as part of its fuel pulse calculations, even for cranking fuel. Right now, the MAP calculation is too low because you've told it the wrong sensor is installed.  With a too-low MAP calculation the ECU will use less fuel compared to a correct MAP sensor reading, even if all the other tables in the calibration stay the same. That's why you had to use very high numbers in the VETable.

 

You said the car doesn't start with the 3-bar MAP sensor selected. There are separate numbers for cranking fuel (for the very first time the engine fires up) vs running fuel (to stay running after it first fires). You might need to adjust both.

If the car doesn't fire up at all when you use the correct MAP reading, you should adjust the table LambdaCrankingTable. Bigger numbers in that table (like 17-18 AFR) will result in less fuel when cranking. Smaller numbers (like 4-5 AFR) will result in more fuel when cranking. Since your engine starts with a too-low MAP reading but doesn't start with a normal MAP reading, you need to use bigger numbers in that table. Try adding 2 or 3 to all the numbers in the table, that should help.  After you fix the MAP sensor, you'll also need to use smaller numbers in the VETable so it stays idling after it fires up. Numbers between 40-70 are pretty common for idling, and numbers between 80-110 are pretty common for full throttle.

 

By the way, now that you know that 40 works for the VR_PwmDuty table value at high RPM, the first number in the table should be set to 40 or lower. The reason it might need to be lower is those type of VR sensors usually send a weaker signal at low speeds.

 

Hope that helps,

SB

m0sad
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Last seen: 5 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 02/14/2019 - 07:06
AEM_SB wrote:

AEM_SB wrote:

The ECU uses the MAP sensor reading as part of its fuel pulse calculations, even for cranking fuel. Right now, the MAP calculation is too low because you've told it the wrong sensor is installed.  With a too-low MAP calculation the ECU will use less fuel compared to a working sensor, even if all the other tables in the calibration stay the same. That's why you had to use very high numbers in the VETable.

 

You said the car doesn't start with the 3-bar MAP sensor selected. There are separate numbers for cranking fuel (for the very first time the engine fires up) vs running fuel (to stay running after it first fires). You might need to adjust both.

If the car doesn't fire up at all when you use the correct MAP reading, you should adjust the table LambdaCrankingTable. Bigger numbers in that table (like 17-18 AFR) will result in less fuel when cranking. Smaller numbers (like 4-5 AFR) will result in more fuel when cranking. Since your engine starts with a too-low MAP reading but doesn't start with a normal MAP reading, you need to use bigger numbers in that table. Try adding 2 or 3 to all the numbers in the table, that should helps.  After you fix the MAP sensor, you'll also need to use smaller numbers in the VETable so it stays idling after it fires up. Numbers between 40-70 are pretty common for idling, and numbers between 80-110 are pretty common for full throttle.

 

By the way, now that you know that 40 works for the VR_PwmDuty table value at high RPM, the first number in the table should be set to 40 or lower. The reason it might need to be lower is those type of VR sensors usually send a weaker signal at low speeds.

 

Hope that helps,

SB

Dear SB, 

thank you for your replay. 

i bought a AEM 3.5 map sensor. i will install it later this week and will do some tests. 
will keep updating. 

m0sad
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Joined: 02/14/2019 - 07:06
Dear SB,

Dear SB,

it's taking me a while.. lol, new baby is time consuming [=

 

anyway, changed the MAP sensor and now the VEtable is fantastic. 

 

 did notice that i had a lot of 'cranktimingerror0+1' (30+)

and 'cam0_sync error' (10)

that was when the 'VR_PWDDUTY' was 60,40

so i did what you suggested and tried to lower the 'VR_PWDDUTY' now it's 50,50 and the errors are down to just 2 at the 'cranktimingerror0' 

it that normal? 

thx

"with lambda" is the map before VR change

with lambda.itlog

with lambda.itssn

this is after VR change

startup VR_DUTY change.itlog

startup VR_DUTY change.itssn

AEM_SB
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Last seen: 2 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 06/07/2014 - 14:29
A single crank or cam error

A single crank or cam error when the engine turns off is normal. Ideally you don't want to see errrors when the engine is cranking and starting up.

The MAP readings looks much more reasonable in this log, the original VETable from our base maps should be a good starting point to try now.

m0sad
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Joined: 02/14/2019 - 07:06
AEM_SB wrote:

AEM_SB wrote:

A single crank or cam error when the engine turns off is normal. Ideally you don't want to see errrors when the engine is cranking and starting up.

The MAP readings looks much more reasonable in this log, the original VETable from our base maps should be a good starting point to try now.

Thx for the reply.

The errors im getting is at crankin..

Try to setup the vr again?

m0sad
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Last seen: 5 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 02/14/2019 - 07:06
AEM_SB wrote:

AEM_SB wrote:

A single crank or cam error when the engine turns off is normal. Ideally you don't want to see errrors when the engine is cranking and starting up.

The MAP readings looks much more reasonable in this log, the original VETable from our base maps should be a good starting point to try now.

Thx for the reply.

The errors im getting is at crankin..

Try to setup the vr again?